Jafar
04-30-2012

Is this skill for aide helpful!!??

Steward
07-14-2012

for pvp yes

Chester
08-25-2012

Auto efect?
or
Skill?

Junchul
08-25-2012

skill

Laurencio
09-22-2012

what is better? evasion r18 or this r10?? what works how? what is better for pvp? please respond :(

Jafar
09-22-2012

2012-09-22
what is better? evasion r18 or this r10?? what works how? what is better for pvp? please respond :(

Mei Hua
09-22-2012

the best way to learn pvp is to have mock battles with others, there are numerous company's that have regular mocks each week. i suggest you get in touch with these companies. see if they would allow you to join in, if they are primarily maritime comp's then they will have a wealth of knowledge to impart. try SeaLegion i know its a pirate comp, but getting to know them in mocks might be a good way to avoid knowing them as only your hunters

Chester
09-22-2012

evasion r20, this and bpa

Lena
10-03-2012

what is better? evasion r18 or this r10?? what is better for pvp? please respond :(

Enver
10-03-2012

My impression is that DSD reduces a fix amount of damage (approximately 100 to 200 randomly).

On the other hand, Evasion reduces damage in percentage (imagine a percentage of bombs missed).

If you are talking about side hits, DSD would prevail since a usually 400 damage is now reduced to 250-ish. But when coming to critical hit, evasion will be your life saver.

Sonia
10-09-2012

How to have this R10?

Mei Hua
10-09-2012

90 liutenant traits.or 96.

Miyo
03-06-2013

Advantages of DHP over Evas:
- DHP offers a lot more damage reduction against broadsides
- DHP is still effective during leaks/floods while Evas is nullified

Advantages of Evas over DHP:
- Evas offers more protection against criticals
- Evasion isn't limited to just a specific type of cannon

Armie
03-06-2013

@Miyo,

Correction, not DHP, but DSD :p.

The real threat in pvp are double shot criticals. Normal, fire, smokescreen are not lethal enough unless the guns were tempered by tools.

E.g. master carronade 1104 can do 1309 crit damage with penetration R20, not enough to 1-shot kill most ships (MFCV, FFCV, MIS, MNG, FIS, AFCV, and so on)


Evasion provides some protection, too, but mainly against players with low rank accuracy skill. At R20 accuracy, evasion does less than 10 pct damage reduction, i.e. 140 or less. Shot defence works on critical hit, this can be proved by me being the biggest noob in BC and letting Romar hitting me 7 consecutive crit with double shot and I walked away.


So just use DSD imo, don't even both with evasion unless u play as admiral and want to run full protection.

Beatrice
03-06-2013

@Armie
I am admittedly a noob so not speaking from personal experience.
I either read Lodian's post or watched one of his video which said something like "many players think evasion counters accuracy, this isn't true" and then go on to explain how evasion just reduces damage taken and slightly narrow the angle where you can get crit. Anyone else read/watched that as well? Anyone can verify how evasion works?

Mei Hua
03-06-2013

If you are the tank run evasion as well.
I wish they buff evasion and nerf shot defenses, only a little though, to balance them out, or hell just introduce more aides with double shot defense, now there isn't much variety and I hate it when everyone's skill set and aide choices are like clones......

Armie
03-06-2013

@Beatrice

I probably saw that video before coz i'm familiar with that statement.

The part that evasion narrows the crit angle is probably true. The part that evasion will reduce damage even against R20 accuracy is also true, but R20 accuracy will make the reduction so trivial that you might as well replace it with something else.

This is from personal experience when i just reached R15 evasion. I mocked against a few fellow players and evasion worked great. Then later I got recruited by PAC and saw BowserDaGreat doing full damage on me with my evasion on, by then i knew evasion does not do too much.

Recently I did a damage test on Bowser's AFCV. We tested with naked damage without penetration, with penetration, with R20 evasion on, and with shot-defence on. I was in R19 accuracy and R20 penetration build.

Results were:
- penetration roughly put 400 more damage on crit, or 200 more on non-crit.

- R20 evasion against R19 accuracy reduced approximately 150 damage in the test (roughly, due to fluctuation)

- double shot defence, around 200 damage reduction on both broadside and critical.

I hope the test result helps others. Everyone please add your result if u can prove otherwise.

Lena
03-06-2013

@Armie
Thanks for the results. If R20 EVA reduce 150 damage against R20 ACC isn't that comparable to the 200 damage reduction DSD offers? Or is EVA's damage reduction only effective for non-crit while DSD effective for both crit and non-crit?

Sophia
03-12-2013

"Recently I did a damage test on Bowser's AFCV. We tested with naked damage without penetration, with penetration, with R20 evasion on, and with shot-defence on. I was in R19 accuracy and R20 penetration build.
Results were:
- penetration roughly put 400 more damage on crit, or 200 more on non-crit.
- R20 evasion against R19 accuracy reduced approximately 150 damage in the test (roughly, due to fluctuation)
- double shot defence, around 200 damage reduction on both broadside and critical."

@Armie
Mind clarifying wheteher R20 EVA's damage reduction applies to both crit and non-crit? That is essential for comparison between EVA and DSD. If R20 EVA reduces damage by 150 that isn't bad at all and not too different from DSD's 200? Especially since EVA is against all type of shots. I guess the main concern here is when you are leaking coming out from melee (assuming no drainage pump) then DSD is more reliable. Other than that was there any other reason you said DSD > EVA?

Li Yue
03-12-2013

dont forget that the speed you are going plays a huge role in how effective your evasion is....the faster you moving the better your evasion...

Armie
03-12-2013

@Sophia,

Oh, sorry that I missed one result. EVA is proportional damage reduction depending on eva rank and opponent's accuracy rank. In the test for crit, eva reduced 150. We did not see significant damage drop in broadside when EVA was on/off, thus possibly the damage reduction is within 50. DSD works more reliably in both crit and non-crit.

But having said that, EVA could be useful when opponent having weak accuracy. In an 1 v 1 mock against bowser who was running R20 eva in a 90 armor vaisseau with BPA, me using R16 acc, R20 pene, carro 1104 x5. roughly out of 10 hits, I did something like (a rough memory here):

5 5 15 80 50 5 5 20 5 5,

lots of 5 damages. My guess is that evasion works great when its rank higher than opponent's accuracy by a few ranks.

Now... who's not R16 acc yet? Raise your hand!

Maria
03-12-2013

redo the tests with the ships moving....not just stop...and also takes the wind direction into consideration

Armie
03-12-2013

Not sure about others, personally I turn evasion on/off based on how bad the situation is. Most of time I run DSD + Acc + Pene in BC, since cannon is still the most threatening shot type. I switch DSD to ballistics when I feel safe and want to go full offensive, or switch Pene to evasion if situation gets sticky (e.g. surrounded by 6 people)

Imo, DSD is must-have if you want to play serious PvP. Evasion is a nice-to-have, but not necessary the must. For most of the time, you could get along without it.

Carla
03-12-2013

My experience is that DSD is more consistent whereas EVA is a bit shaky so I agree DSD is the defensive skill of choice when you only want one activated.
One hypothesis why EVA is shaky could be because EVA helps with "evading" cannons (eg, those 5 damage). Like the other guy said if you get shot while moving fast (and even more so if you are also turning) you get hit for a lot less damage, persumably because you "evaded" the cannons. Perhaps EVA literally helps evade as in it helps increase the chance that this type of significant damage reduction occurs? Either way, it's effect can be felt easily in battle and reducing crit angle is always welcomed when you find yourself surrounded.

Kicker
03-12-2013

Can anyone tell me how: (1) carro16 against NO normal shot def compare to (2) cannon16 against ACTIVATED double shot def?

Liza
03-12-2013

You find DHP more important than any shot defense when you got surrounded. You find Evasion even more important when those that surround you are using all sorts of shots.

DSD seems so cool cause probably 80% of the server's Pvpers use them. Then you realize players like maze still own pretty much everyone with DSD on his not-even-1040 HPs.

It's always like that, you either have a specialized shot defense skill that should strongly reduce damage from a particular shot, or a weaker, yet universal shot defense skill like Evasion. If Evasion's going to churn out better output than any shot defense skill alone then it renders these skills pointless and only work as a secondary defense mechanism.

Until more players realize how to properly use other shots in PVP DSD will always seem to be the favourite shot defense skill.

Sonia
03-12-2013

Kala is right. I am typing from phone hard to copy and paste but there is a Japanese "skill test wiki" where players were commenting in 2010 posts that Normal Shot Defense reduces damage by a fixed amount (assume all shot defense the same) whereas Evasion increase chance of evading / increase chance of taking negligible damage.

Maria
03-27-2013

@ARMIE:
Thank you again for your test data! Just curious though, the test data do not seem to fit with the formula Bliz and Polaris provided? Their formula shows that:

PEN r20(1376 piercing, 100% hit rate, 100 armour, DSD r0)
adds around 200 dmg crit 100 dmg broadside

PEN r20(1376 piercing, 100% hit rate, 100 armour, DSD r10)
adds around 140 dmg crit 50 dmg broadside

So DSD reduces damage received by 30% for critical and 50% for broadside.

EVA r20 on the other hand is hit and miss as it reduces hit rate -40% but ACC r20 r20 +20% BAL r20 +30% cannons charged to flash status +10% wind direction can +10% to +20% Figurehead with one college skill can -15% and far range -??% etc. there's also the random base number...

Armie
03-27-2013

I saw the formula, too.

The formula does answer a few variations I observed in my test.

E.g. DSD always reduces the damage, while evasion works by chance (reduce likelyhood for high damage), and effect not as obvious.

Claudia
03-27-2013

Armie are you a girl?
Armie why don't you and other Aussies start an Aust-NZ company?

Laurencio
03-27-2013

I know Bliz is our server's first 70/70/70 and knows a lot of stuff from other servers so I don't want to doubt him but his formula not only contradicts Armie's testing but also produce results that contradict my personal experience. For instance, a set of 5 M.Cannon16 with 1584 piercing power only does 281 damage (with Penetration r20 against DSD r10 and 100 armour) is a bit too low? Taking Penetration r20 out of the equation only does 231 is also low. And that is already 100% hit meaning Accuracy r20 against opponent with no Evasion etc. If it's not 100% then the damage would be even lower.

Armie
03-27-2013

@Laurencio
With double-shot-defence turned on, that is exactly how much 1584 cannons could do, between 200 to 300 maximum damage. 500+ damage is against someone who does not turn on DSD.

In my tests, we mainly focused on crit damage, because we knew that broadside can hardly do more than scratch.

@Claudia
Other Oz or Kiwis are welcome to PAC. e.g. Mahir182

Li Yue
04-26-2013

One thing you will learn very fast, that even all the PAC members know. Armie makes things up and pushes them as fact.

They are wrong constantly.

They have been quoted saying "ballistics dosent add damage only range" "so there is no reason to grind the skill past rank 1, should just use reloading" Armie is a tool. They know nothing about this game or math.

Sophia
04-26-2013

the longer away u are from your enemy, the lesser damage u inflict. however.if u are near, the damage is higher. ballistics increases the range, making the enemy to be nearer in theory, making more damage. armie is right

Sakura
04-26-2013

ballistics increases the range, making the enemy to be nearer in theory
So the higher the rank the higher the the nearer theory so there is a ready to grind this skill to r20 ^^

Holfina
04-26-2013

Balistics actually increase accuracy. Accuracy increases damage accuracy by 2% per rank and Balistics increase by 1.5%per rank. On other hand, evasion decreases accuracy by 2%per rank. Confirmed by korean wiki.

Holfina
04-26-2013

Also, if you dont beilve me, try it out. Acc\bal/pene vs acc/pene/bal. I tried to npc and in BC and result was using balistics makes your shot more accurate.

Meng Meng
04-26-2013

Oops acc/pene/reloading not acc/pene/bal

Lisa
04-26-2013

Hmmm looks like a worthwhile trip to Venice for once in the game.

Mei Hua
04-26-2013

you can try it out, ask boomstick, the real boomstick not lodian firemorgan and stehrle sharing the account. Ballistics is the killer. Right up close as a sniper, nobody is running reloading, armie is a tool.